TAKE A LOOK AT OUR BACKSTAGE PHOTOS AS WE GO OVER THE SUBJECTS WE'LL BE COVERING SOON & CRAFT MATERIAL FOR UPCOMING EPISODES.
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[Nicoletta]: Hello and welcome to Hi & Stuff, a brand new podcast about parenting, autism and caring for caregivers.
I'm your host, Nicoletta LaMarca Sacco. I'm a writer, daughter, wife and over 50 mom in a midlife process. I'm on my Mom-opause journey. Won't you join me?
I hope you enjoy listening to Hi & Stuff!
DISCLAIMER: You will hear strong language, adult topics and discussions that are not suitable for all listeners.
Please use your discretion.
Also, my experience as a parent is my experience, not medical or psychiatric advice of any kind.
This is my personal and parental point of view.
COACHING: Allow me to give you joy, emotional support for caregivers: There's just one you- J.O.Y. If you need peace, hope, and joy in your life’s journey parenting with autism, fill out the contact form. Let’s chat.
PILOT EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Hi & Stuff is short for dispensing with small talk because it's all BS.
[Sonny]: correct.
[Nicoletta]: OK. So tell me why you think small talk is BS.
Well, small talk is meaningless and it's much like how a politician can say five paragraphs and not convey a single coherent thought.
[Nicoletta]: Well, ok, so small talk is too much time invested in incoherent bullshit for you.
[Felice]: Yes.
[Nicoletta]: Gotcha.
[Sonny] I'd rather get straight to the point and talk about whatever it is that we were talking about,
[Nicoletta]: Ok, so that makes sense as far as naming the podcast hi and stuff because it means we're getting straight to the point. So we're getting straight to the point of bullying.
[Nicoletta]: We're also getting straight to the point of tolerance of belonging, not belonging…
[Sonny]: being ostracized for being different and not, not necessarily doing anything wrong.
[Nicoletta]: So would you say everyone is different and the mainstream has got it all wrong
because the mainstream thinks the mainstream is the majority but really everyone is different, right?
[Sonny]: Yes and no.
[Nicoletta]: OK. Go ahead.
[Sonny]: Calling mainstream belonging is two different things.
[Nicoletta]: OK.
[Nicoletta]: So please explain.
[Sonny]: Belonging is a sense of community with a group of people that have a common understanding or a common purpose.
[Nicoletta] OK.
[Sonny]: And mainstream culture is vacuous and always hyper-conservative.
[Nicoletta]: But is it an illusion? [Sonny]: Yes
[Nicoletta]: OK. So mainstream culture culture is
[Sonny]: Gigantic Air Quotes
[Nicoletta]: So that's, that's not real.
[Nicoletta]: So that means that social conventions that the mainstream require are not real.
Yeah, they're artificially set in place by the White man in charge in the case of politics.
In the case of media, it's by the straight people in charge.
[Nicoletta]: OK. Yes, that's true.
So there's a ton of homophobia out there.
Let's also talk a little bit about in terms of social skills and being neuro-spicy.
So what does mainstream mean for being neurodiverse?
[Sonny]: Mainstream is being average,
which isn't exactly extraordinary but also not exactly benign either.
It's mostly it's for all intents and purposes being accepted, even though you didn't do anything outstanding to achieve that seal of approval.
[Nicoletta]: Ah, so that gets into some culture war stuff about everyone deserves a prize just for, you know,
existing…
13th place if they're Gay Focker and, you know, his parents hang up the 13th place ribbon on the wall along with his fourth place jockstrap and his uh circumcision for,
foreskin stump…
[Nicoletta]: skin,
[Sonny]: it landed in the fondue.
How dare.
[Nicoletta]: So that reminds me of the,
[Sonny]: of my foreskin?
[Nicoletta]: Gah, No No; we have to, we have, we have to do the disclaimer,
oh thank goodness we did the disclaimer…
[Nicoletta]: about like, ok, so adult topics are being addressed from minute one.
[Nicoletta]: So if you'd like auditory discretion, we are definitely going to
use that.
[Sonny]: Please be advised: this is for adults only.
[Nicoletta]: I mean, we get into some, you know, definitely some not just controversy but like adult topics and different, I guess, you know, what could be considered potentially just [Felice]: hazardous [Nicoletta]: for adults.
All right. So that was good.
[Nicoletta]: We have the Hi and Stuff definition now as a shortcut, hi and stuff is extremely helpful.
[Nicoletta]: If hi andstuff is short for, how are you?
niceties, pleasantries and so on. [Felice]: How's the weather?
[Nicoletta]: What does bye and stuff mean? [Felice]: bye and stuff is a dismissal [Nicoletta]: just bye and stuff.
[Nicoletta]: Like I just laugh to myself because if you text me and it's like "bye and stuff"
[Nicoletta]: I know that that's the end of the conversation [Felice]: correct.
[Felice]: It's like saying I love you and whatnot.
[Felice]: The what not is the best part, [Nicoletta]: the whatnot
[Felice]: the what not.
[Felice]: It's everything you don't say. [Nicoletta]: What do you like about whatnot?
[Felice]: Well, it's an encapsulation of everything that I don't have to say.
[Nicoletta]: Oh, this is like when the mom explained, oh, my son with autism said "I love you one time" and the son explained
Mom…
I told you once…
and that's meant to be a very literal take on what a lot of us, like…
[Nicoletta]: It's so meaningless to me.
[Nicoletta]: If I am hanging up the phone and it's like,
[Nicoletta]: "love you" instead of bye or instead of bye and stuff,
[Nicoletta]: it couldn't really be more insincere because it's repeated so much.
[Felice]: It's repeated so much it becomes meaningless. [Nicoletta]: Correct.
[Felice]: So
like that South Park episode where they said shit
so often that they could no longer censor it.
[Nicoletta]: I don't know if we can refer to copyrighted material. Like,
[Felice]: yes, you can, we talked about Glee and Breaking Bad.
[Nicoletta]: That's true.
[Nicoletta]: I mean, they're culture icons so we can definitely give like
[Nicoletta]: South Park is definitely a culture icon.
[Nicoletta]: South Park as far as just retiring early and moving up here to the Catskills is kind of like the Eric Cartman way of doing stuff.
[Nicoletta]: Screw you guys. I'm going home.
[Felice]: Exactly. You know, we do what we want.
[Nicoletta]: Correct. That's true.
[Nicoletta]: So, yeah, so, you know, the vibe I'm getting, which I'm really finding exceptionally comfortable and fun is Car Talk, the NPR, Car Talk guys,
[Nicoletta]: one of them passed away,
but I'll never forget driving into Mannes and listening to reruns of car
[Nicoletta]: talk when the partner was by himself and the other one had unfortunately died.
[Nicoletta]: And I remember crossing the George Washington Bridge and
[Nicoletta]: listening to car talk and being all like,
wow, I didn't know this could happen to my transmission or whatever. So, and speaking of
digression
[Felice]: you're talking to somebody that doesn't know anything about cars. Right.
[Nicoletta]: Well, speaking of digressions, which we're both extremely good at.
Um, I wanted to cover one more thing, which was the, um, the,
[Nicoletta]: the idea of learning social skills from people without social skills.
[Nicoletta]: So the American public school does this disservice to persons on the spectrum?
[Felice]: Let's take,
let's, uh that's the joke.
It's much like the joke in the healthcare system where it's like,
let's pump this guy full of drugs and put him in this tiny robe and see what happens.
[Felice]: Let's
[Nicoletta]: back open.
[Felice]: Right. Let's, or, you know, front open.
[Felice]: So it's like you're presenting your genitalia
[Felice]: where your genitals, I didn't order [Nicoletta]: Frankfurters for lunch.
[Felice]: Exactly.
Well,
[Nicoletta]: the thing is that what I'm trying to talk about, I,
[Nicoletta]: I now use the term individuals on the spectrum because you're an adult.
[Nicoletta]: But a,
the reason for the podcast is to know some more information that I or to disseminate information.
[Nicoletta]: I wish I had known when you were five or 15 and now you're 25.
[Nicoletta]: Um, but the other reason is in terms of childhood and middle school,
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[Nicoletta]: middle school is 2 to 3 years.
It depends on the district before middle school,
they put you in the social skills groups and you were in work groups with others that lacked social skills.
[Felice]: So how the fuck am I supposed to learn how to socialize and be? So be socialable in a social group where nobody knows how to speak or socialize.
[Nicoletta]: The point is so there's the mainstream, right? The mainstream is other-ing kids that are different.
[Nicoletta]: So you put all the kids that are different in one group and expect them to learn social skills without,
[Felice]: right, let alone not knowing how to do social skills.
[Felice]: I never learned how to find and evolve and put be put into
cliques because clique culture exists in middle and high school in America.
I never learned how to seamlessly integrate from one to another.
[Nicoletta]: Well, that's exactly,
[Felice]: it's not like I could identify with
[Felice]: emo kids, goth kids or jocks or whatever.
I was friendly with people
and got shit for it. [Nicoletta]: Well, you were friendly but then they required some precedent. That's what the clique is. So if you are trying to be friendly and somebody isn't
[Felice]: prove your
worth
[Felice]: peasant, right?
[Nicoletta]:It's like uh it's like uh the meaning of life, not the meaning of life.
What is that other movie? [Felice]: Life of Brian?
[Nicoletta]: Brian. Yeah. Life of Brian definitely.
[Felice]: And I did less than zero. [Nicoletta]: But then, but then it's not your fault.
[Nicoletta]: You're trying to be friendly, you know, the script in social skills groups, they teach you the script,
[Felice]: the script of learning how to communicate with other people is hi, how are you?
I'm just trying to make friends
[Felice]: and you speak in a calm, unassuming, unaggressive voice. [Nicoletta]: You
make
eye
contact, like
[Felice]: you forcibly make eye contact even though your natural instinct as somebody on the
spectrum might be to not make eye
contact because that makes you horrifically uncomfortable,
[Nicoletta]: right?
So all the social skills that are in the curriculum are not applicable at all. [Felice]: correct. or it gets missed.
[Nicoletta]: So what that's where we get to hi and stuff being shorthand for.
[Nicoletta]: Let's dispense with all this bullshit, nicety stuff and get on with the point of what we're discussing.
[Felice]: Let's upgrade this discussion to medium talk as quickly as possible.
[Nicoletta]: Medium talk is small talk 2.0
yes.
[Nicoletta]:Hi and stuff. I'm Nicoletta Take off that tight three part garment of guilt, blame and shame.
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[Nicoletta]:We're talking about caring for caregivers in particular sandwich generation.
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[Nicoletta]: Let's talk about sandwich generation.
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[Nicoletta]: In my case with parents that are super seniors
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[Nicoletta]: and adult Children. One on the spectrum.
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[Nicoletta]:I wear many hats. My sandwich is
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[Nicoletta]: in the panini press hot, hot, hot, the smoke alarms going off.
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[Nicoletta]: I'm burning my fingers all hell's breaking loose.
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[Nicoletta]: Believe me, I would like you to help yourself and others by embracing joy.
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[Nicoletta]: Isn't there just one? You, there's just one me joy.
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[Nicoletta]: There's just one you care for caregivers. Where did we get the podcast? Name?
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[Nicoletta]: Hi
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[Nicoletta]: and stuff.
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[Nicoletta]: what does hi and stuff mean? Anyway, as a writer, I'm a big word nerd.
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[Nicoletta]: hi andstuff was shorthand that entered our family's vocabulary.
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[Nicoletta]: When our son was little being a literal thinker,
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[Nicoletta]: he had not much use for everyday banter.
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[Nicoletta]: The small talk or reciprocal speech we all take for granted,
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[Nicoletta]: unlearned social rules, eye contact, et cetera are challenging for nd
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[Nicoletta]: neuro diverse individuals.
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[Nicoletta]: Many blurt out whatever they think this is known as having hashtag
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[Nicoletta]: #nofilter
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[Nicoletta]: So hi and stuff became shorthand
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[Nicoletta]: for the back and forth. Hi, how are you? How's it going?
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[Nicoletta]: How you doing whatever that nobody really cares about at all.
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[Nicoletta]: Welcome to hi andstuff, the podcast.
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[Felice]: Hello and welcome to the High and Stuff podcast. My name is Felice
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[Felice]: Sacco and with me is Nicoletta LaMarca
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[Felice]: Sacco
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[Nicoletta]: hi and stuff. Let's give the audience a little idea of what hi and stuff means.
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[Nicoletta]: So it all started with social skills and small talk. Can you speak to
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[Nicoletta]: your like dislike or neutrality towards small talk
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[Nicoletta]: and just explain what hi and stuff is
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[Nicoletta]: short for [Felice]: hi and stuff is a personal space for us to talk about issues relating to
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[Felice]: socialization and being different from other people. [Nicoletta]: Absolutely.
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[Nicoletta]: So what does hi and stuff mean?
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[Nicoletta]: When did you start saying that or why did you start saying?
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[Felice]: Well, it began many, many years ago
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[Felice]: whenever I wanted to foo
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[Felice]: bar, anything that I wanted to do [Nicoletta]: hi and stuff as far as I understand it,
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[Nicoletta]:but you can definitely weigh in was a very shortened version with your, um, sense of humor
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[Nicoletta]:which I really appreciate, that
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[Nicoletta]: compressed the nonsense about how you're doing. Ok. How's it going?
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[Nicoletta]: How you're doing, all this, into just a simple hi and stuff and
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[Nicoletta]: get into whatever it is you're talking about without the back and forth.
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[Felice]: Of course, we don't need any of the background sway of just saying hello.
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[Felice]: And how's the weather and all that?
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[Felice]: We cut straight to the chase and go graduate
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[Felice]: to medium talk and ask about your sex life.
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[Nicoletta]: That's not medium talk. I think that's pretty deep
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[Nicoletta]: however small talk,
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[Nicoletta]: whether it becomes medium talk or deep talk is pretty dispensable.
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[Nicoletta]: It's a bunch of nicety platitude cliche bullshit. What do you think?
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[Felice]: Well, these platitudes are platitudes for a reason,
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[Felice]: just like how stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason.
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[Felice]: They may not be respectable
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[Felice]: or respectful, but at least they are present
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[Felice]: just like we are in the present moment.
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[Nicoletta]: So while we're testing, I wanted to test out on you some really bad puns.
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[Nicoletta]: So first,
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[Nicoletta]: there's extraordinary story which is a story about parenting
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[Nicoletta]: and autism that I'm working on as you know,
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[Nicoletta]: and the extraordinary is spelled with an A U for autism.
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[Nicoletta]: Then I started going a little nuts.
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[Nicoletta]: I wrote,
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[Nicoletta]: ought to hear this with an A U in the A fantastic parents
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[Nicoletta]: with an ASD in front of the tick in fantastic for autism
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[Nicoletta]: spectrum dis
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[Nicoletta]: autism spectrum disorder, bleugh
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[Nicoletta]: care for the caregiver is really what the overall podcast is
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[Nicoletta]: all about because a lot of times people care for someone else
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[Nicoletta]: and forget to care for themselves. And last but not least the worst of all we put the
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[Nicoletta]: A AU in Awesome, [Felice]: which is spelled wrong, [Nicoletta]: spelled wrong
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[Felice]: for a reason.
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[Nicoletta]: I should care about that since I'm an English teacher, former English teacher.
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[Felice]: Correct.
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[Nicoletta]: Now,
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[Nicoletta]: another thing I wanted to outline actually is
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[Nicoletta]: you really beautiful AI uh derived artwork.
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[Nicoletta]: It's a picture of Lake Florence which we drove past
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[Nicoletta]: just now and it's a short distance from the house.
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[Nicoletta]: So can you tell us a little bit about AI and
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[Nicoletta]: how you um worked through that photograph to make it really pop?
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[Nicoletta]: And by the way, it's on my website, [Felice]: well,
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[Felice]: the artificial intelligence is really just a machine learning neural network.
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[Felice]: A artificial neural network is
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[Felice]: a bunch of nodes and
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[Felice]: edges connecting those nodes trying to imitate and replicate what a human
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[Felice]: brain tries to do when they think about something or learn.
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[Felice]: And this was a computer program that I had written to take computer
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[Felice]: images, digital
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[Felice]: photographs or cartoons and paint over them with the style of other artists.
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[Felice]: This is called artificial style transfer
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[Felice]: or as my interpretation called it artificial
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[Felice]: neural style transfer WCT-TF which stands for
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[Felice]: uh weighted computed
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[Felice]: transfers, which is a method of transferring the style from one
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[Felice]: image to another arbitrarily without needing to
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[Felice]: necessarily train the algorithm on how to paint
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[Felice]: in the style of the scream or the starry night.
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[Felice]: And it's able to paint using any image imaginable.
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[Nicoletta]: So do you remember the style? I thought it might be impressionistic style
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[Nicoletta]: but [Felice]: I made it Cubist
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[Nicoletta]: Cubist. Gotcha. OK.
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[Nicoletta]: Because the view of the lake on a sunny day
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[Nicoletta]: like today is really beautiful and it has those browns,
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[Nicoletta]: greens and blues that I love.
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[Nicoletta]: But your AI derived
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[Nicoletta]: picture of it is really stunning.
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[Nicoletta]: It, it makes a great front page for my website, which is why I use it.
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[Nicoletta]: And of course, I credit you.
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[Nicoletta]: So tell us a little bit more about the
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[Nicoletta]: different types of AI filters and artwork styles
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that you enjoy when you take a picture like
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[Nicoletta]: a photograph and then put it through that filter.
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[Felice]: Well, using WCT-TF, I've learned that this kind of algorithm is very,
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[Felice]: very deterministic.
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[Felice]: It is pure[ly] functional,
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[Felice]: which in programming terms really means that it is only
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[Felice]: going to produce the same results given the same input.
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[Felice]: So garbage in garbage out or diamond in diamond out. [Nicoletta]: Gotcha.
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[Felice]: So the same thing applies to other
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[Felice]: algorithms that also exist.
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[Felice]: Like you may have seen stable diffusion algorithms that
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[Felice]: are free open source and anyone can use,
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[Felice]: it takes a text input where you have to describe an image using words.
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[Felice]: And then
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[Felice]: the algorithm will attempt to make
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[Felice]: an image based on your text prompt similar to technology like
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[Felice]: chat GPT or the new search engine Bing by Microsoft,
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[Felice]: which has been able to take text prompts and
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[Felice]: return all sorts of different instructions on how to automate
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[Felice]: automate the boring stuff.
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[Nicoletta]: You know,
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[Nicoletta]: um You're making me think of something too that
325
00:16:40.513 --> 00:16:44.174
[Nicoletta]: often comes up on Instagram images where if someone
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[Nicoletta]: is visually impaired,
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[Nicoletta]: it'll actually have a description.
328
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[Nicoletta]: It says so and so influencer is wearing pink pants and
329
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[Nicoletta]: a denim shirt and wearing her hair in a page boy
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[Nicoletta]: kind of thing so that they can actually read it or
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[Nicoletta]: even probably have read to them [Felice]: with a screen reader.
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[Felice]: That technology is called alt text and that is
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[Felice]: embedded into images in order to allow the visually impaired
334
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[Felice]: to
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[Felice]: experience what's in a photo without directly observing it.
336
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[Felice]: It's been on the web since 1993.
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[Nicoletta]: That also reminds me of whoever is audio, uh audibly impaired.
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[Nicoletta]: Well, I better, I better find out the right word for that. [Felice]: DEAF!
339
00:17:26.719 --> 00:17:27.848
[Nicoletta]: Yeah, exactly.
340
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[Felice]: Um
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00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:34.439
[Nicoletta]: Because if they can have the transcription, they could obviously either
342
00:17:34.579 --> 00:17:36.930
[Nicoletta]: listen to it repeatedly or at a higher volume.
343
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:38.660
[Nicoletta]: So that would help them as well.
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[Nicoletta]: Um So speaking of that,
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[Nicoletta]: one of my research topics um recently has been
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[Nicoletta]: representation and accessibility online for the neuro diverse.
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00:17:48.489 --> 00:17:54.579
[Nicoletta]: So, in Digital Spaces, like some of the story collections that my doctoral
348
00:17:54.865 --> 00:17:57.015
[Nicoletta]: group has been doing with immigrants, um you know,
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[Nicoletta]: having the previously marginalized voices be heard.
350
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[Nicoletta]: So immigrants that are coming through now, migrants,
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[Nicoletta]: even refugees coming through now uh who don't speak English,
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[Nicoletta]: providing interpreters for them, make sure making sure their stories are told.
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[Nicoletta]: My particular slice of that though isn't really immigration,
354
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[Nicoletta]: but a kind of metaphorical migration from parenting with neurotypicals like
355
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[Nicoletta]: your sister and parenting with neuro diverse like yourself and how
356
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[Nicoletta]: you migrate from the world of parenting as everybody knows
357
00:18:27.541 --> 00:18:30.982
[Nicoletta]: and takes for granted to the world of parenting with ND
358
00:18:31.151 --> 00:18:33.501
[Nicoletta]: that we make up our own dictionary.
359
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[Nicoletta]: When a child isn't verbal till later in life, we make up our own systems,
360
00:18:37.562 --> 00:18:39.182
[Nicoletta]: we make up our own strategies.
361
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[Nicoletta]: We cope for sure we cope with humor quite a bit as you know.
362
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[Nicoletta]: So as far as accessibility and
363
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[Nicoletta]: representation online, do you feel like autism in particular is well represented
364
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[Nicoletta]: that spaces in digital areas are not just representative but accessible.
365
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[Felice]: It's a tricky question to answer because many
366
00:19:01.358 --> 00:19:05.708
[Felice]: of the media doesn't necessarily come across a
367
00:19:05.718 --> 00:19:09.187
[Felice]: autistic story or an autistic character and depict
368
00:19:09.197 --> 00:19:12.098
[Felice]: them in a meaningful or dignified way.
369
00:19:12.108 --> 00:19:14.297
[Felice]: And when they do, it may be [done]
370
00:19:14.447 --> 00:19:19.008
[Felice]: haphazardly or Ham handed uh my favorite example is actually the good doctor,
371
00:19:19.017 --> 00:19:21.387
[Felice]: which is a TV show I think on CBS,
372
00:19:21.494 --> 00:19:24.473
[Felice]: which is about a doctor with autism.
373
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[Felice]: He is a great empath that takes care of his patients,
374
00:19:28.223 --> 00:19:30.413
[Felice]: both emotionally and physically.
375
00:19:30.423 --> 00:19:36.514
[Felice]: He is very determined to make sure that all of his patients are alive and well,
376
00:19:36.524 --> 00:19:39.343
[Felice]: but not only surviving but also thriving.
377
00:19:39.354 --> 00:19:43.154
[Felice]: And to me that, that's fantastic. It's good representation.
378
00:19:43.163 --> 00:19:46.083
[Felice]: It gets people thinking and talking about a story
379
00:19:46.093 --> 00:19:49.514
[Felice]: or a character that they might never experience otherwise,
380
00:19:49.524 --> 00:19:50.313
[Nicoletta]: you know, I,
381
00:19:50.420 --> 00:19:56.229
[Nicoletta]: I really agree and I think that recently on parenthood and some other popular shows,
382
00:19:56.239 --> 00:20:01.479
[Nicoletta]: there have been recurring characters, not just bit players or side show Bob type
383
00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:02.250
[Nicoletta]: that
384
00:20:02.410 --> 00:20:05.050
[Nicoletta]: do represent autism or asperger's as it used to
385
00:20:05.060 --> 00:20:09.920
[Nicoletta]: be called in a way that listeners or viewers can
386
00:20:10.089 --> 00:20:13.469
[Nicoletta]: show the compassion they should be showing in real life.
387
00:20:13.689 --> 00:20:19.239
[Nicoletta]: Um So it concerns me a bit because as you know, I'm looking into belonging
388
00:20:19.489 --> 00:20:23.859
[Nicoletta]: versus being a misfit and we've discussed uh at, at length,
389
00:20:23.869 --> 00:20:27.000
[Nicoletta]: our nuclear family of four all for, for whatever reason,
390
00:20:27.010 --> 00:20:31.020
[Nicoletta]: as Children and adolescents have been bullied and being bullied, you know,
391
00:20:31.030 --> 00:20:32.260
[Nicoletta]: takes its toll.
392
00:20:32.270 --> 00:20:36.280
[Nicoletta]: It can be something that didn't seem like a lot when it was actually happening,
393
00:20:36.290 --> 00:20:38.849
[Nicoletta]: but it could stay with a person for quite a long time.
394
00:20:38.859 --> 00:20:43.550
[Nicoletta]: And I think if we tell stories of ND individuals and we get
395
00:20:43.560 --> 00:20:47.959
[Nicoletta]: more of that impression of what it means to be neuro diverse today
396
00:20:48.310 --> 00:20:51.449
[Nicoletta]: there online as we're doing with the podcast,
397
00:20:51.459 --> 00:20:55.410
[Nicoletta]: then more people will show more compassion, win, win all around.
398
00:20:55.420 --> 00:20:58.540
Of course. [Nicoletta]: So, you know, that's, that's of interest to me.
399
00:20:58.550 --> 00:21:03.780
[Nicoletta]: Actually, one of my professors did send me a list that includes literary and
400
00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:07.709
[Nicoletta]: television or media programming all over that
401
00:21:07.719 --> 00:21:11.030
[Nicoletta]: represents or misrepresents persons on the spectrum.
402
00:21:11.380 --> 00:21:17.000
[Nicoletta]: My great interest in that has been sort of the book ended media of my,
403
00:21:17.500 --> 00:21:18.469
[Nicoletta]: my life really.
404
00:21:18.479 --> 00:21:22.079
[Nicoletta]: In 1988 I went to the movies like everyone else and watched Rain Man
405
00:21:22.089 --> 00:21:25.239
[Nicoletta]: in the on the big screen and there's Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise,
406
00:21:25.250 --> 00:21:26.640
[Nicoletta]: you know, big names and
407
00:21:26.979 --> 00:21:28.479
[Nicoletta]: kind of portraying
408
00:21:28.630 --> 00:21:32.459
[Nicoletta]: a stereotype of a mixture of intellectual
409
00:21:32.469 --> 00:21:35.760
[Nicoletta]: and developmental disability that was based on someone
410
00:21:35.930 --> 00:21:40.550
[Nicoletta]: Kim Pete who didn't even really have autism. He had savantism
411
00:21:40.800 --> 00:21:42.619
[Nicoletta]: and he had an intellectual disability.
412
00:21:42.630 --> 00:21:45.599
[Nicoletta]: But Rain Man, as he was portrayed by Dustin Hoffman
413
00:21:45.780 --> 00:21:49.920
[Nicoletta]: was several degrees and stuff away from the person
414
00:21:49.930 --> 00:21:52.150
[Nicoletta]: he had studied in order to play the character.
415
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:54.989
[Nicoletta]: So then it brings me to the question when you were little, maybe a less.
416
00:21:55.213 --> 00:21:59.642
[Nicoletta]: We went to see the the theater portrayal of the fiction book,
417
00:21:59.652 --> 00:22:01.682
[Nicoletta]: the curious incident of the dog in the night
418
00:22:01.692 --> 00:22:05.042
[Nicoletta]: time and what they did with the stage lighting
419
00:22:05.223 --> 00:22:11.902
[Nicoletta]: and audio design is portray a panic attack of the main character stuck
420
00:22:11.912 --> 00:22:15.392
[Nicoletta]: and lost in a subway system which he had memorized map wise.
421
00:22:15.402 --> 00:22:16.333
[Nicoletta]: That was his Savantism
422
00:22:16.522 --> 00:22:17.723
[Nicoletta]: that was his gift,
423
00:22:17.733 --> 00:22:20.613
[Nicoletta]: but never realized what the hell would happen if he
424
00:22:20.623 --> 00:22:23.103
[Nicoletta]: actually went and got lost down in the tube.
425
00:22:23.225 --> 00:22:23.385
[Nicoletta]: It's
426
00:22:24.086 --> 00:22:24.546
[Nicoletta]: so it's called the tube
427
00:22:25.196 --> 00:22:27.395
[Felice]: the practicality of
428
00:22:27.615 --> 00:22:29.105
[Felice]: mapping out. Everything.
429
00:22:29.115 --> 00:22:32.926
[Felice]: Mathematically doesn't actually work for this character, [Nicoletta]: right?
430
00:22:32.936 --> 00:22:36.115
[Nicoletta]: Because the map is math, it's just a grid, it's just a graph. It's really, math
431
00:22:36.286 --> 00:22:39.686
[Felice]: that's like saying, how could you be lost in New York? The streets are numbered.
432
00:22:39.895 --> 00:22:43.715
[Felice]: That's something that isn't going to be understood by somebody who
433
00:22:43.725 --> 00:22:48.416
[Felice]: uses landmarks as a prime way of navigating a city.
434
00:22:48.426 --> 00:22:51.245
[Nicoletta]: Well, thanks for reminding me of one of my most panicked moments
435
00:22:51.348 --> 00:22:54.828
[Nicoletta]: as a mom when I knew after the fact. Thank you
436
00:22:54.989 --> 00:22:59.168
[Nicoletta]: that you got lost in New York when your class went on a class trip to Chinatown
437
00:22:59.178 --> 00:23:03.598
[Nicoletta]: and your phone was out of battery and you found your way back to the group anyway.
438
00:23:03.609 --> 00:23:06.678
[Nicoletta]: Hi, five. [Felice]: I'm alive. [Nicoletta]: Correct.
439
00:23:06.818 --> 00:23:09.899
[Nicoletta]: Um So back to the curious incident. I mean,
440
00:23:10.019 --> 00:23:14.468
[Nicoletta]: so the stage designer and stage manager made the lights
441
00:23:14.479 --> 00:23:19.288
[Nicoletta]: and the noise and everything mimic sort of all the screaming
442
00:23:19.661 --> 00:23:21.631
[Nicoletta]: subway trains and [Felice]: it was very much a, a
443
00:23:22.102 --> 00:23:27.171
[Felice]: hallucinatory recreation of being trapped in a foreign country where
444
00:23:27.182 --> 00:23:30.011
[Felice]: you are unfamiliar and it was kind of seizure inducing.
445
00:23:30.021 --> 00:23:33.421
[Nicoletta]: Well, I'm just wondering, what did you feel at that moment?
446
00:23:33.432 --> 00:23:35.972
[Nicoletta]: Because I remember that before intermission,
447
00:23:35.982 --> 00:23:39.202
[Nicoletta]: we did have to take a break and walk out into the lobby to get some air.
448
00:23:39.212 --> 00:23:42.432
[Nicoletta]: So what were you feeling at that time? [Felice]: I was feeling kind of called out.
449
00:23:42.442 --> 00:23:47.491
[Felice]: I felt as though my life was not necessarily represented for the better,
450
00:23:47.594 --> 00:23:52.935
[Felice]: worse, but more so I felt as though I was being targeted
451
00:23:53.305 --> 00:23:57.925
[Felice]: or a prime suspect for being not necessarily
452
00:23:57.935 --> 00:24:01.824
[Felice]: attacked because that's definitely a strong term for a
453
00:24:01.834 --> 00:24:06.454
[Felice]: musical more so I felt embarrassed to go because
454
00:24:06.464 --> 00:24:09.864
[Felice]: this is a collection of songs, pieces and,
455
00:24:10.064 --> 00:24:15.614
[Felice]: and bombastic segments that really describe myself in a lot of ways. But it
456
00:24:15.718 --> 00:24:17.258
[Felice]: also doesn't
457
00:24:17.387 --> 00:24:18.378
[Felice]: in a lot of ways. [Nicoletta]: Well,
458
00:24:18.628 --> 00:24:22.567
[Nicoletta]: this is what I have to get. [Felice]: It makes it relatable in some ways.
459
00:24:23.078 --> 00:24:25.637
[Nicoletta]: It made the nt people in the audience,
460
00:24:25.647 --> 00:24:27.937
[Nicoletta]: which is always the majority really uh you know,
461
00:24:27.947 --> 00:24:30.228
[Nicoletta]: uh understand and empathize with how a
462
00:24:30.238 --> 00:24:33.297
[Nicoletta]: panic attack might feel inside someone's mind.
463
00:24:33.307 --> 00:24:34.307
[Nicoletta]: The thing is,
464
00:24:34.437 --> 00:24:38.578
[Nicoletta]: I was absolutely stupefied when I found out this was a work of fiction.
465
00:24:38.628 --> 00:24:40.537
[Nicoletta]: So it was accurate, you're saying
466
00:24:40.677 --> 00:24:42.277
[Felice]: it was scarily
467
00:24:42.478 --> 00:24:43.157
[Felice]: accurate.
468
00:24:43.840 --> 00:24:44.230
[Nicoletta]: So
469
00:24:44.490 --> 00:24:48.211
[Nicoletta]: I wonder if maybe a bit more research into the
470
00:24:48.220 --> 00:24:51.941
[Nicoletta]: author and the adapter of the screenplay from the novel,
471
00:24:52.350 --> 00:24:52.630
[Nicoletta]: you know,
472
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:57.340
[Nicoletta]: would be helpful because Rain Man is also fictional based on
473
00:24:57.350 --> 00:25:02.921
[Nicoletta]: supposedly what Kim Pete experienced in life as an nd individual,
474
00:25:02.931 --> 00:25:07.661
[Nicoletta]: however, not a portrayal of him, an interpretation of Dustin Hoffman,
475
00:25:07.671 --> 00:25:11.860
[Nicoletta]: which arguably we could say like one of the greatest actors of his generation,
476
00:25:12.099 --> 00:25:15.000
[Nicoletta]: but interpreting it in whatever way he chose or
477
00:25:15.010 --> 00:25:18.319
[Nicoletta]: whatever way he interpreted it as an nt person,
478
00:25:18.329 --> 00:25:19.390
[Nicoletta]: which isn't right.
479
00:25:19.510 --> 00:25:22.089
[Nicoletta]: So now fast forward like parenthood, [Felice]: I don't
480
00:25:22.199 --> 00:25:22.250
[Felice]: know,
481
00:25:22.270 --> 00:25:25.449
[Nicoletta]: some of these other shows will employ actors
482
00:25:25.459 --> 00:25:28.239
[Nicoletta]: that have the disability they're trying to portray,
483
00:25:28.250 --> 00:25:30.060
[Nicoletta]: for example, in breaking bad,
484
00:25:30.290 --> 00:25:31.089
[Nicoletta]: right? The character, Flynn
485
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:34.000
[Nicoletta]: right? With CP, he has CP,
486
00:25:34.550 --> 00:25:39.319
[Nicoletta]: however, he is exaggerating it for the audience. So then we want to say,
487
00:25:39.459 --> 00:25:41.656
[Nicoletta]: is it for entertain attainment purposes?
488
00:25:41.666 --> 00:25:43.985
[Nicoletta]: We're cheapening someone's disability,
489
00:25:43.995 --> 00:25:46.816
[Nicoletta]: we're representing them by hiring an actor with a disability.
490
00:25:46.826 --> 00:25:51.206
[Nicoletta]: But we're saying, make it more exaggerated "for art's sake".
491
00:25:51.215 --> 00:25:57.005
[Nicoletta]: And I could say it's just a tiny step from saying for art's sake then for comedy sake.
492
00:25:57.015 --> 00:26:02.225
[Nicoletta]: And that means that the overall nt audience looks and says, see that's that R word,
493
00:26:02.235 --> 00:26:04.036
[Nicoletta]: you know CP guy
494
00:26:04.345 --> 00:26:09.105
[Nicoletta]: with all his spasms and with his tics and does that further the
495
00:26:09.212 --> 00:26:15.171
[Nicoletta]: cause of DEI, you know, accessibility, tolerance, support network and so on.
496
00:26:15.182 --> 00:26:18.251
[Nicoletta]: Like you're going to exaggerate something which a lot of assholes
497
00:26:18.261 --> 00:26:20.442
[Nicoletta]: in the audience are going to find funny and laugh at
498
00:26:20.552 --> 00:26:24.141
[Nicoletta]: which in real life they're also laughing at and they use the R word
499
00:26:24.682 --> 00:26:25.291
[Nicoletta]: and
500
00:26:25.401 --> 00:26:26.312
[Felice]: it's not.
501
00:26:26.442 --> 00:26:26.881
[Nicoletta]: So,
502
00:26:26.891 --> 00:26:30.171
[Nicoletta]: so there's equity where the actor is hired and has that
503
00:26:30.182 --> 00:26:33.631
[Nicoletta]: disability but they're being told oh exaggerated for the camera.
504
00:26:33.761 --> 00:26:37.462
[Nicoletta]: Where are we? [Felice]: Well, we are at a weird crossroads of
505
00:26:37.767 --> 00:26:43.478
[Felice]: an example of this is uh Glee where they have a character who is in a wheelchair,
506
00:26:43.488 --> 00:26:48.718
[Felice]: but the actor who plays him is not disabled in any way, shape or form, they are
507
00:26:49.197 --> 00:26:51.677
[Felice]: able to stand up and walk and whatnot.
508
00:26:51.787 --> 00:26:54.537
[Felice]: But they use that character
509
00:26:54.907 --> 00:27:01.468
[Felice]: in order to emphasize a diversity message, which I guess a for effort they tried
510
00:27:01.927 --> 00:27:06.228
[Felice]: but it's a show about musical numbers and people,
511
00:27:06.323 --> 00:27:08.453
[Felice]: high school passing their chemistry test.
512
00:27:08.764 --> 00:27:11.374
[Felice]: My other favorite example is also from Glee.
513
00:27:11.384 --> 00:27:14.634
[Felice]: This woman is an actor who isn't pregnant, but in the show,
514
00:27:14.644 --> 00:27:18.223
[Felice]: she's pregnant for two seasons or so and
515
00:27:18.394 --> 00:27:21.823
[Felice]: they just probably stuffed a pillow underneath her shirt
516
00:27:21.994 --> 00:27:23.484
[Felice]: or something like that.
517
00:27:23.764 --> 00:27:26.213
[Nicoletta]: I mean, it works on soap operas. I've seen it done.
518
00:27:26.234 --> 00:27:26.933
[Nicoletta]: But then again,
519
00:27:26.943 --> 00:27:30.904
[Nicoletta]: when I was watching soap operas was in the eighties where nobody gave a shit about DEI
520
00:27:30.913 --> 00:27:34.744
[Nicoletta]: knew what that stood for what it was or what the concept was [Felice]: as long as the Mexican
521
00:27:35.189 --> 00:27:39.579
[Felice]: did the Mexican thing. Well, and this is funny too. Um,
522
00:27:40.069 --> 00:27:44.140
[Nicoletta]: I forget what movie was being shown and they made a point of
523
00:27:44.150 --> 00:27:47.849
[Nicoletta]: not making the terrorists from the Middle East because it's such a cliche
524
00:27:48.239 --> 00:27:50.260
[Nicoletta]: and how to be more inclusive of people.
525
00:27:50.310 --> 00:27:52.479
[Felice]: So they decided to make Russians the terrorist.
526
00:27:52.500 --> 00:27:55.780
[Nicoletta]: Well, I mean, like what, you know, pick your bad guy kind of thing.
527
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:58.699
It's like 9/11 means... [Felice]: again
528
00:27:58.959 --> 00:28:03.260
[Nicoletta]: well, not, well, ok, so 911 made a lot of stupid people,
529
00:28:03.579 --> 00:28:09.030
[Nicoletta]: you know, mix up Indians and Middle Eastern and what, you know, anything,
530
00:28:09.040 --> 00:28:10.750
[Felice]: anything with a hijab.
531
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:16.829
[Nicoletta]: Right. And, or, [Felice]: or a turban right. [Nicoletta]: And, or any kind of religious wear at all.
532
00:28:16.849 --> 00:28:18.400
[Nicoletta]: The problem is now
533
00:28:18.630 --> 00:28:22.569
[Nicoletta]: that people may or may not remember 9/11 is
534
00:28:22.579 --> 00:28:25.079
[Nicoletta]: that now we have post COVID where people just,
535
00:28:25.260 --> 00:28:29.239
[Nicoletta]: you know, throw acid in the faces of Koreans, Vietnamese,
536
00:28:29.343 --> 00:28:33.223
[Nicoletta]: Japanese, Chinese and call it, you know, the Chinese flu and all this.
537
00:28:33.233 --> 00:28:37.123
[Nicoletta]: It's just an excuse for the next racist trope to come out.
538
00:28:37.253 --> 00:28:39.863
[Nicoletta]: So that stupid white Americans
539
00:28:40.093 --> 00:28:44.282
[Nicoletta]: who we found out the hard way are at least 50%
540
00:28:44.292 --> 00:28:47.253
[Nicoletta]: of at least voters if not 50% of this country.
541
00:28:47.322 --> 00:28:51.932
[Felice]: Well, America was founded on racist principles, [Nicoletta]: right? For sure.
542
00:28:51.942 --> 00:28:52.932
[Felice]: I mean, what, what else
543
00:28:53.603 --> 00:28:54.083
[Felice]: be,
544
00:28:54.422 --> 00:28:55.003
[Felice]: how,
545
00:28:55.105 --> 00:28:58.965
[Felice]: what else could you possibly or plausibly claim
546
00:28:59.145 --> 00:29:03.985
[Felice]: that we Americans loved freedom whilst slave owning, [Nicoletta]: please. [Felice]: That's
547
00:29:04.115 --> 00:29:06.676
[Felice]: ridiculous. [Nicoletta]: Jefferson as the framer
548
00:29:07.186 --> 00:29:10.416
[Nicoletta]: that was screwing his own sister
549
00:29:10.556 --> 00:29:11.286
[Nicoletta]: in law
550
00:29:11.566 --> 00:29:17.686
[Nicoletta]: and having quote mulatto Children that were Jeffersons with the last name Hemmings
551
00:29:18.686 --> 00:29:20.776
[Nicoletta]: is the number one hypocrite
552
00:29:21.296 --> 00:29:22.286
[Nicoletta]: in America. Ok.
553
00:29:22.656 --> 00:29:24.635
[Nicoletta]: So anyway, let's leave it there.
554
00:29:25.089 --> 00:29:27.530
[Felice]: Let's not leave it. [Nicoletta]: Nice test
555
00:29:28.300 --> 00:29:30.599
[Together]: bye and stuff.
556
00:29:36.790 --> 00:29:38.050
[Nicoletta]: I will die.
557
00:29:38.290 --> 00:29:43.609
[Nicoletta]: I will die on a still day. Air, unmoving, no precipitation,
558
00:29:44.219 --> 00:29:46.859
[Nicoletta]: no humid hand grasping for mine.
559
00:29:47.479 --> 00:29:50.699
[Nicoletta]: You will still depend on me but I will be gone.
560
00:29:51.040 --> 00:29:53.290
[Nicoletta]: You will still need a mother's touch
561
00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:55.170
[Nicoletta]: but my lips will be still
562
00:29:55.660 --> 00:29:59.560
[Nicoletta]: no one telling you to watch out for consequences.
563
00:29:59.939 --> 00:30:02.890
[Nicoletta]: Your sister will know exactly what has happened.
564
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:06.010
[Nicoletta]: You'll have to ask her to walk in my shoes.
565
00:30:06.709 --> 00:30:09.239
[Nicoletta]: I tried to live forever for you.
566
00:30:09.349 --> 00:30:14.180
[Nicoletta]: Then added that to my sack of failed attempts to be your human shield
567
00:30:14.910 --> 00:30:18.609
[Nicoletta]: on my bookshelves, all the books I've ever read
568
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:23.150
[Nicoletta]: in my messy pile of index cards you call old fashioned
569
00:30:23.670 --> 00:30:26.689
[Nicoletta]: piles of files on your care, annotated,
570
00:30:26.800 --> 00:30:29.199
[Nicoletta]: antiseptic, cold. And still,
571
00:30:29.790 --> 00:30:32.689
[Nicoletta]: if you look for signs of me, still,
572
00:30:32.890 --> 00:30:37.010
[Nicoletta]: you will find no more home cooked meals or hugs
573
00:30:37.329 --> 00:30:41.520
[Nicoletta]: you one day released from the hospital to a drafty shelter.
574
00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:46.319
[Nicoletta]: Me dead, unable to indignantly convey the ire. I feel
575
00:30:46.849 --> 00:30:51.130
[Nicoletta]: unable to say over my dead body as they lead you away.
576
00:30:51.560 --> 00:30:54.579
[Nicoletta]: Sometimes I do imagine the unimaginable
577
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:56.520
[Nicoletta]: what mother wouldn't,
578
00:30:56.829 --> 00:30:57.520
[Nicoletta]: doesn't
579
00:30:58.060 --> 00:31:05.160
[Nicoletta]: you half petrified and half unaware? What has your continuous need of me concocted?
580
00:31:05.170 --> 00:31:07.020
[Nicoletta]: But a cacophony of pain.
581
00:31:07.540 --> 00:31:09.650
[Nicoletta]: I watch as if from afar.
582
00:31:10.260 --> 00:31:14.689
[Nicoletta]: You at your laptop tinkering or smaller under my arm.
583
00:31:14.859 --> 00:31:19.550
[Nicoletta]: I hear you giggle calling. But for once, I cannot answer
584
00:31:20.050 --> 00:31:23.280
[Nicoletta]: you making funny faces in the steamed up mirror
585
00:31:23.290 --> 00:31:26.680
[Nicoletta]: before monsters created the need for self harm.
586
00:31:27.339 --> 00:31:30.099
[Nicoletta]: I have mourned you more this year than ever.
587
00:31:30.469 --> 00:31:34.599
[Nicoletta]: One day you will mourn me in your inscrutable way
588
00:31:34.930 --> 00:31:37.949
[Nicoletta]: that I don't know now and I won't know then
589
00:31:38.550 --> 00:31:40.979
[Nicoletta]: it will be up to others to decipher
590
00:31:41.109 --> 00:31:42.189
[Nicoletta]: what you mean
591
00:31:42.430 --> 00:31:46.040
[Nicoletta]: and what you need. [Nicoletta]: Thanks and stuff to our sponsors,
592
00:31:46.250 --> 00:31:49.040
[Nicoletta]: The Hill studio record label and Joy.
593
00:31:49.229 --> 00:31:52.839
[Nicoletta]: Just one you coaching and caring for caregivers.
594
00:31:53.420 --> 00:31:56.410
[Nicoletta]: You can show your support by subscribing and
595
00:31:56.420 --> 00:31:59.209
[Nicoletta]: please take a look at my website Nicoletta
596
00:31:59.530 --> 00:31:59.859
[Nicoletta]: LaMarca
597
00:32:00.089 --> 00:32:02.469
[Nicoletta]: sacco.com for my blog
598
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:07.489
[Nicoletta]: and other stuff. Give us a follow. Thanks for joining us. See you next time,
599
00:32:07.699 --> 00:32:12.030
[Nicoletta]: bye and stuff. Check out Sunny's AI design street wear
600
00:32:12.170 --> 00:32:12.750
at kobykotiv
601
00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:14.369
on Instagram.
602
00:32:14.520 --> 00:32:21.750
That's at Kobykotiv on Instagram,
603
00:32:22.790 --> 00:32:22.920
Kobykotiv.com
604
00:32:23.239 --> 00:32:24.810
TRANSCRIPT BY FELICE SACCO